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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)


The successor to the 918 hypercar might very well be fully electric. This news comes direct from the top man at the famed sports car brand.

When asked about the possibility of just such a model during the recent Cayenne Coupe reveal, CEO Oliver Blume responded. “We have a big history here, and we’ll have one in the future."

He followed up that if Porsche does go fully electric, they won't half-ass it. "It has to be the best in the market, the highest performing… right now we haven’t got a concept for that car. But might it be a pure-electric car? Yes.”

That's all Blume would let on about the possibilty of just such a car, but he did have more to share on the upcoming Taycan./

“I drove it in Sweden three weeks ago,” he said, hinting that it will please even GT3 drivers. “It will have a driving dynamic you have never seen on before on an electric car. There will be GT3 drivers who will be interested in the Taycan, and have both of them. A dream garage.”

Those waiting for the Taycan won't have to wait much longer. It will debut in September with deliveries in January of 2020. The Cross Turismo will arrive roughly only year later. After that Porosche has promised a full-electric version of the next-gen Macan, but hasn't given a timeline for its release.

Beyond that, Blume hinted that a fully-electric Cayenne will be next on the list. We're surprised it isn't coming sooner.
 

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Not surprised to hear that Porsche is considering a Spyder successor, with all rumored upcoming electric models from Ferrari, Lamborghini etc. If it ends up being more powerful than the 887hp hybrid model, we could very well see a price tag north of $1million.
 

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If anyone is serious about getting their hands on some hybridized or fully electrified Porsche supercar/hypercar, you should keep eye on what Ferrari is up to




We are only one week away from the official reveal of Ferrari’s new hybrid supercar and we have to admit the Italians have done a good job keeping test prototypes hidden from sight.

These are the first photos of an actual prototype and not a test mule. Mind you, a prototype was also chased by a motorcyclist and a 488 Spider driver last week, but this is the clearest look yet at the hybrid supercar that will sit above both the F8 Tributo and the 812 Superfast in Ferrari’s lineup.

That’s because it will have a system output of 1,000 PS (986 hp) from an interesting setup: a 3.9-liter twin-turbo V8 engine assisted by three electric motors. According to recent reports, the as-yet-unnamed model will feature the same V8 engine as the F8 Tributo with help coming from two electric motors mounted on the front axle and a third motor integrated into the transmission.

Given this configuration, the hybrid supercar should feature e-AWD; the rumored 0-100 km/h (0-62 mph) time of only 2.0 seconds certainly suggests that.

We don’t have many clues regarding the new Ferrari’s looks, but as these spy photos show, it will have the typical proportions of a mid-engined supercar. We can also see that it features two big round exhaust tips and sleek horizontal LED headlights. Also obvious are the massive brakes, most likely of the carbon ceramic kind.

The yellow warning sticker on the doors and the front bonnet is a clear indication that the prototype features an electrified powertrain. Underneath the heavy camouflage, the car should be pretty much finalized given that it’s scheduled to have its public debut on May 31.
 

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Also, the next generation BMW i8 is worth watching. Maybe this time around it'll be more than a glorified GT car with fancy doors!



BMW is on the verge of making the next generation of its flagship i8 sports car a fully electric model, according to sources at the firm.

Bosses are at a crucial decision-making stage with the next i8 and senior officials at the German car maker are now said to be favouring a pure-electric model.



by Greg Kable
20 May 2019

BMW is on the verge of making the next generation of its flagship i8 sports car a fully electric model, according to sources at the firm.

Bosses are at a crucial decision-making stage with the next i8 and senior officials at the German car maker are now said to be favouring a pure-electric model.


The second-generation i8, tentatively slated for introduction by the end of 2023, was originally conceived as a high-powered four-wheel drive evolution of today’s petrol-electric hybrid. That type of set-up has been clearly indicated by BMW development boss Klaus Fröhlich on a number of occasions over the past year.

However, recent information out of BMW’s R&D headquarters in Munich, Germany, reveals the development of an alternative plan under which the next i8 would adopt a newly developed pure-electric drivetrain. The Current i8 combines a three-pot petrol with electric power move would be part of a “race to road strategy” that, Autocar has been told, aims to provide a “tangible link” between BMW’s involvement in Formula E and its i electric car division.

The alternative pure-electric plan developed for the i8 revolves around what one key Munich insider describes as a “new high-torque pure-electric driveline”. Its adoption could put the successor to today’s first-generation model into direct competition with a number of emerging limited-volume zero-emission supercars, including the Tesla Roadster and a planned pure-electric replacement for the existing Audi R8, while eclipsing rivals such as the planned plug-in hybrid Porsche 911.

Secrecy surrounds the new electric driveline and the amount of power it develops, although Autocar has been told it shares key elements with the four-wheel-drive system being developed for the production version of the BMW iNext, which is undergoing testing ahead of its planned launch in 2021.

Among its innovations is a new generation of electric motor. Developed in-house, it is claimed to achieve “significantly higher rotational speeds” than the existing synchronous units used in the hybrid system of today’s i8.

Prototype versions of the new electric motor, which is scheduled to be produced at BMW’s drivetrain plant in Munich, have already been tested in i8 mules, according to Munich-based engineering sources. They suggest the new motor has been conceived to provide future BMWs with the high-revving characteristics of the company’s combustion-engined cars.

The battery pack for the all-electric BMW sports car is expected to draw on lithium ion cell technology from Chinese battery specialist CATL. The two companies have already announced plans for battery manufacture at BMW’s Dingolfing plant in Germany from 2021 in readiness for the introduction of the iNext.

Although BMW has studied automotive applications for solid-state battery technology with US partner Solid Power since 2017, one source said such tech is not deemed sufficiently mature for consideration for the next i8. The source admitted that although simulation tests under laboratory conditions have brought promising results, it is still not yet ready in the unit capacity that would be required for ranges over 250 miles.

A further sticking point in the proposal to turn the i8 into a pure-electric model is the platform. Although it has been described as being suitable to support pure-electric capability, the existing model’s carbonfibre structure lacks the modularity of more modern skateboard-style designs used by rival car makers.

One possible scenario is to base the future i8 on a modified platform from the production version of the iNext (above), which, unlike the upcoming iX3 and i4, is set to receive a newly developed structure.
 

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So this is a twist to say the least, according to Autocar the 918 successor could use the six cylinder engine that Porsche made when they were considering a return to F1.

They're also reporting that there's skepticism within Porsche about having an all-electric halo car.

Here's the full article:

In keeping with comments made by Porsche chairman Oliver Blume this year, high-level sources at the German car maker’s Weissach technical centre confirm that a definitive production go-ahead for the successor to the 918 Spyder is dependent on a decision from Porsche board members on whether to commit to pure-electric or hybrid drivetrain technology for the new hypercar.

Initial plans for the car, first hinted at by Blume at the Geneva motor show in March, were based around an advanced pure-electric drivetrain with the potential to significantly outperform Porsche’s newly unveiled 99X Formula E race car.

However, these plans have apparently been wound back. This is because an internal study concluded that solid-state battery technology, which was to have provided Porsche’s future flagship with what’s described as “new-found standards in EV weight, efficiency and range potential”, is not progressing as quickly as originally expected.

As a result, the technology will not be available in the sort of production quantities required to underpin the new model until the second half of the next decade.

Instead, Porsche is now claimed to be pursuing an alternative plan for its next hypercar. The revised option is based around an advanced plug-in petrol-electric hybrid drivetrain originally developed by Porsche Motorsport for an aborted return to the F1 grid as an engine supplier.

If the alternative drivetrain plan comes to fruition, the new Porsche hypercar will compete head on with the Mercedes-AMG One, which is also underpinned by F1 drivetrain technology.

There are also suggestions that it could provide Porsche with a contemporary driveline package under both Le Mans’ new Hypercar and IMSA’s DPi regulations.

Earlier this year, Porsche’s head of motorsport, Fritz Enzinger, revealed that the company had committed a 40-strong team of engineers from its LMP1 operations to a development programme for a six-cylinder engine and accompanying hybrid drive system as long ago as 2017 – two years after the 918 Spyder ceased production.

The new Porsche engine was originally conceived around a capacity of 2.0 litres as a replacement for the V4 unit used by Porsche’s Le Mans-winning 919 race car. However, the focus of the development programme was subsequently switched to an F1 specification with a capacity of 1.6 litres, Autocar can confirm.

Although Porsche ultimately decided to sidestep F1 and enter Formula E, development of the six-cylinder engine has continued up to today. That’s because, according to Enzinger, an F1 engine adapted for the durability needed for road use and without the complex and expensive MGU-H (motor generator unit – heat), which is used to harvest electrical energy from heat from the exhaust, would “also be interesting for a supersports car”.

He said: “At the end of 2017, we received an order to further develop a highly efficient six-cylinder engine, despite the LMP1 withdrawal – not only on paper but as hardware.”

Enzinger said Porsche’s new six-cylinder engine is “complete and running on the test bench”. He also authenticated reports that it is being used for “analysis with regard to series production relevance”.

Secrecy surrounds the specification of the hybrid component of the new driveline, although it has been conceived to use a powerful electric motor.

Speaking about Porsche’s hypercar plans at the recent Frankfurt motor show, the brand’s head of electric vehicle projects, Stefan Weckbach, said: “Our target is always, no matter what car we’re doing, to have the sportiest car in the segment.”

Weckbach also suggested the electric side of the new Porsche driveline could benefit from technology being developed by a partnership between the German car maker and Rimac.

Following the purchase of an initial 10% shareholding in the Croatian-based electric supercar maker in 2018, Porsche recently upped its stake in Rimac to 15.5%, indicating that it plans a closer working relationship with the company behind the highly acclaimed Concept One and C_Two hypercars.

“We see potential for future co-operation with this company. That is why we raised our stake,” Weckbach said. Rimac, whose latest C_Two hypercar is powered by an electric drive system that delivers up to 1888bhp, has quickly made a name for itself as a leader in electric motor and power electrics technology.

As well as with Porsche, Rimac has also established engineering programmes with Aston Martin, Jaguar and Renault, among others.

In May, Hyundai and Kia jointly invested €80 million (£69m) in Rimac in a deal that will mean the three companies collaborate on the development of EVs.

Whether Porsche plans to apply Rimac’s technology to a pure-electric powertrain or hybrid drivetrain with its next hypercar remains to be seen.

“If it is all electric, it might be an approach, though it might be a Porsche engine as well,” said Weckbach, who signalled that his personal choice would be a hybrid driveline.

EV hypercar: 'will it work?'

Scepticism of pure-electric ‘halo’ models is rife within Porsche and its head of sports cars, Frank-Steffen Walliser, made his feelings clear to Autocar during the Frankfurt motor show in September.

Asked if he welcomed the influx of electric hypercar projects during the past year, Walliser (above) said: “We have seen a lot of studies of electric hypercars. For me, the proof is when it’s on the street with a licence plate. With a study, I don’t have to show you that it truly works, outside on the street, homologated.”

Walliser then took a more philosophical line. “Does an EV hypercar work?” he asked.

“For me, it’s like saying that a drag racer is a suitable sports car. For sure, it’s perfect from 0-100. But there are more things out there that make a sports car: day-to-day use, several laps of the Nürburgring, repeatable performance. I don’t think that would work with technology at its current state.”
 

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Rimac released new photos of their C_Two prototype. If Porsche makes their new hypercar I wonder if they'll be similarly designed.

 

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Discussion Starter #9
Also, the next generation BMW i8 is worth watching. Maybe this time around it'll be more than a glorified GT car with fancy doors!



BMW is on the verge of making the next generation of its flagship i8 sports car a fully electric model, according to sources at the firm.

Bosses are at a crucial decision-making stage with the next i8 and senior officials at the German car maker are now said to be favouring a pure-electric model.



by Greg Kable
20 May 2019

BMW is on the verge of making the next generation of its flagship i8 sports car a fully electric model, according to sources at the firm.

Bosses are at a crucial decision-making stage with the next i8 and senior officials at the German car maker are now said to be favouring a pure-electric model.


The second-generation i8, tentatively slated for introduction by the end of 2023, was originally conceived as a high-powered four-wheel drive evolution of today’s petrol-electric hybrid. That type of set-up has been clearly indicated by BMW development boss Klaus Fröhlich on a number of occasions over the past year.

However, recent information out of BMW’s R&D headquarters in Munich, Germany, reveals the development of an alternative plan under which the next i8 would adopt a newly developed pure-electric drivetrain. The Current i8 combines a three-pot petrol with electric power move would be part of a “race to road strategy” that, Autocar has been told, aims to provide a “tangible link” between BMW’s involvement in Formula E and its i electric car division.

The alternative pure-electric plan developed for the i8 revolves around what one key Munich insider describes as a “new high-torque pure-electric driveline”. Its adoption could put the successor to today’s first-generation model into direct competition with a number of emerging limited-volume zero-emission supercars, including the Tesla Roadster and a planned pure-electric replacement for the existing Audi R8, while eclipsing rivals such as the planned plug-in hybrid Porsche 911.

Secrecy surrounds the new electric driveline and the amount of power it develops, although Autocar has been told it shares key elements with the four-wheel-drive system being developed for the production version of the BMW iNext, which is undergoing testing ahead of its planned launch in 2021.

Among its innovations is a new generation of electric motor. Developed in-house, it is claimed to achieve “significantly higher rotational speeds” than the existing synchronous units used in the hybrid system of today’s i8.

Prototype versions of the new electric motor, which is scheduled to be produced at BMW’s drivetrain plant in Munich, have already been tested in i8 mules, according to Munich-based engineering sources. They suggest the new motor has been conceived to provide future BMWs with the high-revving characteristics of the company’s combustion-engined cars.

The battery pack for the all-electric BMW sports car is expected to draw on lithium ion cell technology from Chinese battery specialist CATL. The two companies have already announced plans for battery manufacture at BMW’s Dingolfing plant in Germany from 2021 in readiness for the introduction of the iNext.

Although BMW has studied automotive applications for solid-state battery technology with US partner Solid Power since 2017, one source said such tech is not deemed sufficiently mature for consideration for the next i8. The source admitted that although simulation tests under laboratory conditions have brought promising results, it is still not yet ready in the unit capacity that would be required for ranges over 250 miles.

A further sticking point in the proposal to turn the i8 into a pure-electric model is the platform. Although it has been described as being suitable to support pure-electric capability, the existing model’s carbonfibre structure lacks the modularity of more modern skateboard-style designs used by rival car makers.

One possible scenario is to base the future i8 on a modified platform from the production version of the iNext (above), which, unlike the upcoming iX3 and i4, is set to receive a newly developed structure.

The current i8 is a joke. Definitely not a supercar or hypercar. Barely a sports car.
 

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New renderings have appeared for what a new 918 could look like.

 

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The current i8 is a joke. Definitely not a supercar or hypercar. Barely a sports car.
As an owner of an i8 I can confidently tell you you are incorrect. And it was never meant to be a super car. I think it’s looks cause people to think it is supposed to be. I would say in its own way it holds up to the Taycan.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
As an owner of an i8 I can confidently tell you you are incorrect. And it was never meant to be a super car. I think it’s looks cause people to think it is supposed to be. I would say in its own way it holds up to the Taycan.
I get what you're saying. It's just that a 911 Turbo would destroy it for the same money. I know that sounds like the Taycan vs Model S argument, but I just think the performance of the i8 (at least on paper) never lived up to the looks.
 

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I get what you're saying. It's just that a 911 Turbo would destroy it for the same money. I know that sounds like the Taycan vs Model S argument, but I just think the performance of the i8 (at least on paper) never lived up to the looks.
No argument on dollars for performance, it was just that it was NOT meant to be a pure performance car. It is more about how it has 3 distinct personalities, it can do so much with two smaller drivetrains, and the very unique characteristics of a rear wheel drive 3 cylinder 6 speed ICE combined with two speed front wheel EV drivetrain. The feel around the corner of the i8 after the Taycan is even more impressive in that I can feel how the ridigity of carbon fiber tub and the lesser weight require so much less work on the cars part. Trying to make it a really fast car would lose those advantages with more mass in the front, back and battery weight.

You either “get it” or you don’t, and it definitely isn’t for everyone. In some ways I could argue I can get same performance out of some souped up kid racer than some Porsche’s for less money, but that would miss the point too.
 

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Autocar spoke with Porsche's design chief Michael Mauer and it seems like an electric Hypercar isn't much of a priority for Porsche at the moment.

Porsche has no desire to follow the array of electric hypercars with four-figure power outputs into the market, according to the brand's design chief.

Talking to Autocar in a phone interview that would have taken place at the cancelled Geneva motor show, Michael Mauer expressed that he has other ideas about what is important for enthusiasts.

"I think now it is so challenging with the weight of batteries to find the best compromise of performance, drivability and lower weight," he said.

These hypercars are not only heavy, they are very much driven by aerodynamics, so they end up looking very similar. There is also the fact that [with an EV] the engine [power and character] is not a big deal any more, and therefore I would love to do something different.

"What I personally find very challenging is not to have another hypercar with 2000bhp, but for the Porsche brand to look into something smaller, something lighter, with more of a drivability focus."

The comments reinforce an Autocar report from last November that plans to launch a pure-EV hypercar to succeed the 918 Spyder had been wound back as solid-state battery technology has not progressed as quickly as hoped. It is believed instead that Porsche engineers are pursuing a plug-in hybrid drivetrain originally developed by its motorsport division for an aborted return to the Formula 1 grid as an engine supplier.

Such a powertrain should give it the engineering integrity, performance and character to compete head-on with other motorsport-inspired hypercars such as the Aston Martin Valkyrie and Mercedes-AMG One.

Talking more widely about EVs, Mauer predicted that as the demand for aerodynamic performance increases to boost electric range, we would see "much smaller cars, lower cars, more efficient aerodynamics".

"You can question how long this hype of SUVs will continue," Mauer continued, citing the upcoming Taycan Cross Turismo as an example of a car that offers SUV versatility in a lower, more range-friendly shape.
 
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