Taycan Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
659 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I think one of the things that made Tesla so popular was their charging infrastructure. Sure the cars are great, but being able to charge them pretty much anywhere really made me comfortable in buying a Model S.

I think the Porsche Taycan charging time is the "killer app" for Porsche.



The official specs from Porsche put the Taycan charging time at approximately 15 minutes for 248.5 miles of range. Porsche has yet to release the official specs on how long it will take for a complete charge.

That number might be somewhat meaningless - like talking about how big your gas tank is as opposed to your car's fuel economy.

Porsche built the Taycan with two permanently excited synchronous motors that combine to make 600 hp and 310 miles of total range. The lithium-ion batteries total 800-volts and were built not for overall size and range, but for fast charging.

Another advantage of this system is that the smaller batteries mean less weight, which is the enemy of performance. And Porsche knows a thing or two about performance!

Going back to the charging time, that works out to about 62 miles of additional range in just 4 minutes. That's well beyond what Tesla offers.

This is all the result of Porsche's "own" charging network called IONITY that offers 350 kW charging vs the 120 kW Tesla Supercharger network. It's actually a joint venture with a bunch of other automakers, including Ford, VW and the other German automakers like Mercedes and BMW.

Owners will also be able to use existing chargers - another nice perk!

I read one report that after the next big push for Porsche will be in overall battery size/capability. With the Taycan set to deliver 310 miles of range on a single charge, the next evolution is targeting 620 miles. I know it's premature to start talking about the "next gen" Taycan when the first one isn't even on sale yet, but it's clear Porsche is thinking long and hard about this.

Looking even further ahead, Porsche said that they plan to have half their cars sold be electrified by 2025.

Currently Tesla has 1,375 Supercharger Stations across the US. How long before Porsche (and it's partners) top this?

Apparently it might not take all that long because Porsche has partnered with Electrify America, which will install 900 stations across in US by mid-2019, and with numerous charging ports per station, that's 5,000 charge ports in total. And that doesn't include all the charging stations being built at every Porsche dealer.

See our detailed story on Porsche's Charging Infrastructure here.

For a look at Porsche's new Fast Chargers, see here.

Here's an interesting video on Fast Charging
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Most of the new EV's coming to market are trying to deliver on an 80% charge in less than 30 minutes. Both Tesla and Jaguar have this capability. Moving forward we should also start to see more universal charging stations, so coverage is better for everyone. I'm more curious who will have the least battery degradation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Since most EV owners will probably install a home charging station, its only on rare occasions or longer trips where you'll even have to make use of a public charger. The average range has nearly doubled from what EV's were capable of just a few years ago. If the improvement in tech continues at the same accelerated pace, 500 miles plus isn't out of the question with future iterations of the Taycan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
Regen systems will likely improve past just braking as well. I don't think solar panels can ever really become a viable solution for cars simple due to their cost and the size that would be required to generate enough power.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
659 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Since most EV owners will probably install a home charging station, its only on rare occasions or longer trips where you'll even have to make use of a public charger. The average range has nearly doubled from what EV's were capable of just a few years ago. If the improvement in tech continues at the same accelerated pace, 500 miles plus isn't out of the question with future iterations of the Taycan.
This is so true. I was writing up today's home page story about the Boxster EV and I can't believe the Boxster E concept from a few years ago made just 121 hp and a range of only 106 miles.

https://www.taycanevforum.com/forum/4-2020-porsche-taycan-news/283-boxster-ev-cayman-ev-coming-2022-a.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
654 Posts
Finally some first hand experience charging the Taycan is showing up and this video shows how the charging progresses throughout a 30-minute timeframe.

I recommend all owners to watch this.

Watch a Porsche Taycan Fast Charge Enough Power in 30 Minutes for 55 U.S. Homes on Thanksgiving!
"The new All Electric 2020 Porsche Taycan can charge at a rate that will easily exceed Tesla's Best fast charging time. In this video watch us charge the new EV Porsche Taycan from 4 to 80 percent of charge in just a half an hour. Which is enough electricity to Power 55 American homes all cooking turkeys on Thanksgiving."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
654 Posts
The fullychargedshow just posted their video on what its like charging the Taycan on a road trip.

Jonny has already experienced the Porsche Taycan launch control ability (0-62 in 2.8 for the Turbo S using over-boost function) in a previous world exclusive Fully Charged episode, but this film is the first road drive of the finished car. A chance to experience the 270kW rapid charging capability, we drove the 2020 Taycan Turbo (not really a turbo, but more a performance level name - 0-62mph in 3.2) from Gothenburg Sweden to Copenhagen Denmark as part of the international launch of the model. Porsche held an 18-day road trip launch event where 18 cars were driven in stints 6,440km across 9 different countries. The 280-mile/450km range, 800v, 100kWh (93.4 of which is useable), up to 680PS (500kW) 850nm twin motor rear-steer Turbo price starts at £115,000, but there will be cheaper versions of Porsche’s first EV coming within the next six months. In stock form both Taycan Turbo and the £138,000 Turbo S feature 625PS (460kw) of power, but it is in over-boost mode for those infamous relentless launch control drag races where the power differences are unlocked. Turbo S gets 761PS (560kW) compared to the 680PS (500kW) Turbo. It may not have the range of a Tesla Model S P100D (the so-called Plaid does not yet exist as a production vehicle), or the 0-60 on paper, or the seating capacity (Taycan is a 4 seat or optional 5) but the Porsche chassis promises better road holding and stopping performance. The Taycan can also charge up to 270kw, which translates to 5-80 percent charge in 22 minutes. Or 62 miles (100km) of driving in 5 mins. And then there’s the build quality that a legacy car manufacturer brings to the table.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
654 Posts
Tesla Model 3 vs. Porsche Taycan charging speed tested by German publication:
  • "Then they asked whether the Taycan charges as fast (in km per hour) as promised. And the answer, again, was no – it actually charges faster. Porsche’s marketing material states that the Taycan will go from 5-80% in 22.5 minutes, but Nextmove saw 1-80% in 21 minutes, so about 10% faster.
  • Working out the IONITY rate against their consumption numbers, Nextmove found the Model 3 charged at a rate of 550 kilometers of range per hour of charging, and the Taycan charging at a rate of 717 km/h – a 30% win for the Taycan.
  • But on the faster V3 superchargers, the Model 3 attained a rate of 651 km/h, which is just 10% slower than the Taycan."
more about the range findings mentioned here are in this video and this article:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
715 Posts
Tesla Model 3 vs. Porsche Taycan charging speed tested by German publication:
  • "Then they asked whether the Taycan charges as fast (in km per hour) as promised. And the answer, again, was no – it actually charges faster. Porsche’s marketing material states that the Taycan will go from 5-80% in 22.5 minutes, but Nextmove saw 1-80% in 21 minutes, so about 10% faster.
  • Working out the IONITY rate against their consumption numbers, Nextmove found the Model 3 charged at a rate of 550 kilometers of range per hour of charging, and the Taycan charging at a rate of 717 km/h – a 30% win for the Taycan.
  • But on the faster V3 superchargers, the Model 3 attained a rate of 651 km/h, which is just 10% slower than the Taycan."
more about the range findings mentioned here are in this video and this article:
I had to laugh a bit that they were comparing their numbers to a test where they were driving both cars at 93 mph/150 km/h! in the winter. Crazy Germans.

They used consumption numbers from a previous test where they found the Model 3 was 34% more efficient than the Taycan at 150km/h in the wintertime. This is clearly an Autobahn-focused test, as 93mph is illegal on all roads in the United States.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
715 Posts
Car and Driver posted this massive article where as a part of it they tested the Taycan's charging with the Model S'.

The highlight that with the Taycan you can get higher miles at a higher rate the longer you charge, but the problem is that it's more expensive to charge than the Model S.

They said in this example it cost $43 to charge the Taycan, 5x more than California electricity and over 2x more than you pay for Supercharging.

It might not matter with the 3 years of free charging that the Taycan gets from Electrify America but it's something to keep an eye out for.

Porsche Taycan Turbo S vs. Tesla Model S Performance charging
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Tesla Model 3 vs. Porsche Taycan charging speed tested by German publication:
  • "Then they asked whether the Taycan charges as fast (in km per hour) as promised. And the answer, again, was no – it actually charges faster. Porsche’s marketing material states that the Taycan will go from 5-80% in 22.5 minutes, but Nextmove saw 1-80% in 21 minutes, so about 10% faster.
  • Working out the IONITY rate against their consumption numbers, Nextmove found the Model 3 charged at a rate of 550 kilometers of range per hour of charging, and the Taycan charging at a rate of 717 km/h – a 30% win for the Taycan.
  • But on the faster V3 superchargers, the Model 3 attained a rate of 651 km/h, which is just 10% slower than the Taycan."
more about the range findings mentioned here are in this video and this article:
The thing is that they never released the video of that charging curve. The charging curves I have seen so far are slower than what they claim in the video:
They go from 0-30% at about 250kW (have seen 200kW too)
Then they go down to 200kW at 30-33% (almost all curves I have seen, 6)
Then it goes down to 150kW from 40% to about 7x something And then it goes down a little bit more.

If you arrive with 20% or more you might get the 200kW only. So at the end of the day you will charge with 150-160kW only if you arrive with lower SOC.

As for Model 3 the Model 3 charges with about 170kW on V3 average> I think it holds 250kW to about 30% and it is more efficient at highway speeds so it actually is faster. It does 0-80% in 25 minutes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
I had to laugh a bit that they were comparing their numbers to a test where they were driving both cars at 93 mph/150 km/h! in the winter. Crazy Germans.

They used consumption numbers from a previous test where they found the Model 3 was 34% more efficient than the Taycan at 150km/h in the wintertime. This is clearly an Autobahn-focused test, as 93mph is illegal on all roads in the United States.
At lower speeds in the US the Taycan is even less efficient. The difference is around 60%-80% compared to Model 3 at 100km/h avg speed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
715 Posts
At lower speeds in the US the Taycan is even less efficient. The difference is around 60%-80% compared to Model 3 at 100km/h avg speed.
That may be but the Model 3 isn't really in the same category as the Taycan, that's why outlets like Car and Driver used the Model S Performance in comparison tests.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
That may be but the Model 3 isn't really in the same category as the Taycan, that's why outlets like Car and Driver used the Model S Performance in comparison tests.
It is still 30% + less efficient than a Model S at slightly lower curb weight.
But why would you compare to the S?! The only S that comes to mind is 100PD. But it is a larger, faster car with more range and more cargo space and back space.

The Taycan is slightly larger than a Model 3, same cargo space, same trunk opening and has similiar spec. If anything the Model 3P is better comparison, because it uses newer tech and not the 2014 tech on the Model S.

If you would compare cars you should do the 3P vs Taycan it is a fairer comparison.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
659 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I've never understood this. Model 3 vs Taycan makes about as much sense as comparing a WRX STI to a Panamera. The WRX STI may be fast, but it's just a big motor and some fancy gear on a cheap car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
715 Posts
I've never understood this. Model 3 vs Taycan makes about as much sense as comparing a WRX STI to a Panamera. The WRX STI may be fast, but it's just a big motor and some fancy gear on a cheap car.
Agreed, the Model S is Tesla's top performance model like the Taycan is for Porsche, it makes way more sense than the Model 3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
@PorscheTaycan are you planning on ordering a Taycan soon by any chance?
Not with the current infrastructure, no. I don't see any advantages in buying one.

As for Model 3 or Model S. If you actullay compare them space wise, the Taycan is closer to the 3 than it is to the S

Trunk: 366 LItre Volume vs 425 Litre on the Model 3 vs Model S 745Litre
2nd row space 35" vs 35" vs 38" Model S
4 seater, 5 seater (more or less 4 really), real 5 seater.

0-60mph about 0.3-0.5S difference

Charging speed 250kW vs 250kW vs 200kW

As you can see the Model S is a totally different car and barely comparable to the Taycan in any regard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
715 Posts
Not with the current infrastructure, no. I don't see any advantages in buying one.

As for Model 3 or Model S. If you actullay compare them space wise, the Taycan is closer to the 3 than it is to the S

Trunk: 366 LItre Volume vs 425 Litre on the Model 3 vs Model S 745Litre
2nd row space 35" vs 35" vs 38" Model S
4 seater, 5 seater (more or less 4 really), real 5 seater.

0-60mph about 0.3-0.5S difference

Charging speed 250kW vs 250kW vs 200kW

As you can see the Model S is a totally different car and barely comparable to the Taycan in any regard.
When ti comes to pure performance, which is what the Taycan is designed to do, it beats the Model S.

 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top