[vaf222]

I have driven my 2013 Tesla Model S (RWD) daily for 80,000 miles and have now driven my 4S with the big battery for a couple of months. There are some clear differences and similarities. The striking difference to me was the sensitivity of the accelerator pedal in the Tesla compared to the Taycan. I drive the Taycan in Normal mode mostly as others will. You get an immediate acceleration in the Tesla in the first 1/4 movement of the pedal. To get the same immediate torque acceleration in the Taycan, I need to go to 1/2 the pedal distance or more. So when moving from the Tesla to the Taycan, the Taycan seems disappointing. But those who do not have the Tesla experience will not have this feeling of disappointment, but it annoys me every time. I think this could be fixed in the Taycan with a software update. The closest I can get to the Tesla's immediate response is when I dial-in Sports or Sports+ mode, but it is still not the same, and I (and others) don't drive in that mode most of the time.

Other than that, I love the Taycan. It handles and feels like a Porsche. I do not like the way the Tesla handles at high speeds, it floats, while the Taycan is planted.

As far as range is concerned, my 2013 Tesla has a range of 256 miles at 100% charge; the new Tesla's are well above that. In my hands, the Taycan in Normal mode and 100% charge has a 300 mile range, and at 85% charge it is 281 miles which I am very happy about and unexpected because EPA estimated range on the Taycan was 200 miles.

I will come back with more thoughts when I drive the Taycan for more miles.

 

[riburn3]

Wow your story is nearly identical to mine. I bought a 4S a few months back and have been driving a 2013 Model S P85 and have about the same mileage (which I kept because I still love the car).

I definitely agree with you on the peddle feel. It is much similar to a normal car versus what you experience with a Tesla. Honestly though, when I'm cruising around town and not just doing freeway commute I put it in sport+, and that gives you the response you are looking for.

The biggest changes for me were a lot more in regard to software and app support. The Porsche software system and charging functionality is an absolute travesty compared to Tesla. A month after I got the car, they told me I had to go in for an "update" which was 90 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Meanwhile the 2013 Tesla has been updating itself in my garage for 7 years without batting an eye.

For me Tesla offers a much better top to bottom EV experience, while Porsche gives you a vastly superior driving and comfort experience. I've always wanted a Porsche and almost got a Boxster GTS, but after years of EV ownership, the Taycan was a wonderful compromise. When my Taycan got its 12V battery replaced from the recall, they loaned me a Boxster and I was so happy I didn't get that. EV's are just so much more fun.

 

[vaf222]

Amazing! Mine is a P85 and I decided to keep it also because I really like the car, but it's not a Porsche. Also, after 7 years I was getting tired of the style and was looking for something different. I agree that the "in garage" updates are great and the charging complex the best, a real Tesla plus. Porsche has a lot to learn, and perhaps they will. Once you drive a performance EV you cannot go back to an ICE; it's addictive driving.

 

[vaf222]

I should have mentioned in my original post above that before my 4S was delivered I took a test drive in a Taycan Turbo and found the same underperforming accelerator pedal. So this lack of accelerator pedal sensitivity is not limited to the 4S.

 

[riburn3]

For sure. I was so surprised by how underwhelmed I felt driving around in that Boxster. It handles so well, but once you become used to the instant power on demand, it's so hard to go back to any other type of driving. Even just the split second for the turbo to go off is noticeable.

The Taycan is such an amazing car because you still get that feeling of being firmly planted on the ground when accelerating through turns or at high speeds. It's amazing they were able to create this experience in such a heavy car.

 

[Axiom]

I should have mentioned in my original post above that before my 4S was delivered I took a test drive in a Taycan Turbo and found the same underperforming accelerator pedal. So this lack of accelerator pedal sensitivity is not limited to the 4S.

I didn't not expect that from Porsche. Hopefully its not a widespread issue and they get it sorted out.

@vaf222 as an experienced Tesla owner, what are you thoughts on the upcoming Model S Plaid?
Do you see yourself potentially going for it over the Taycan?

 

[riburn3]

I know you didn't ask me, but as a Tesla guy myself (still keep a P85 and Model X in my garage), I'm sort of waiting to see if that Plaid announcement comes with some sort of interior/exterior refresh. I considered just going for a newer Model S when I purchased my 4S, but there wasn't enough there to justify the upgrade. You realize not everything is 100% about how fast you can go in a straight line, and things like the aesthetics of the car and it's handling matter.

I think the Model S is still a great looking car, but it hasn't changed much in nearly a decade, and even from a tech standpoint it falls behind the 3 and Y, which are significantly cheaper. You sort of wonder why you are paying a premium for a car that doesn't include the best and brightest features like you would for competitor sedans at a similar price-point. Give it a thorough refresh from top to bottom and I'm sure you see a lot of people reconsider going back to the S, but in it's current state, I'm not sure it's worth the drastically increased price if nothing else changes.

 

[dadmode]

So I’m not the only one who felt that the off that the accelerator travel was different compared to the Tesla’s that I’ve owned. However, the travel does feel more akin to driving my 911.

 

[vaf222]

I didn't not expect that from Porsche. Hopefully its not a widespread issue and they get it sorted out.

@vaf222 as an experienced Tesla owner, what are you thoughts on the upcoming Model S Plaid?
Do you see yourself potentially going for it over the Taycan?

Unless there is a major refresh and changes in handling, I probably won’t even think about going back.

 

[PocketRocket]

From your experience @vaf222, what would you say are some of the major similarities between the Model S and Taycan aside from the range you're getting?

I wonder if enough people bring the issue with the throttle response to Porsche they'll change it.

 

[vaf222]

Hi PocketRocket, it is hard to find other similarities, they are so different except they are both all electric. The Tesla is very quiet (which my wife likes) the Taycan has an electric whine when braking and accelerating (which I like) but quiet while cruising. Interior, very different, interior space very different. Charging capability very different. It really depends on what you are looking for in a car, and select accordingly. They both will get you to where you want to go as far as range is concerned. Tesla now has the best charging infrastructure, so you can go further if necessary, if that is how you will use the car. If most of your driving is within a 150 mile circle, then Taycan will work for you and would be my choice.

 

[cjacobus1]

I have driven my 2013 Tesla Model S (RWD) daily for 80,000 miles and have now driven my 4S with the big battery for a couple of months. There are some clear differences and similarities. The striking difference to me was the sensitivity of the accelerator pedal in the Tesla compared to the Taycan. I drive the Taycan in Normal mode mostly as others will. You get an immediate acceleration in the Tesla in the first 1/4 movement of the pedal. To get the same immediate torque acceleration in the Taycan, I need to go to 1/2 the pedal distance or more. So when moving from the Tesla to the Taycan, the Taycan seems disappointing. But those who do not have the Tesla experience will not have this feeling of disappointment, but it annoys me every time. I think this could be fixed in the Taycan with a software update. The closest I can get to the Tesla's immediate response is when I dial-in Sports or Sports+ mode, but it is still not the same, and I (and others) don't drive in that mode most of the time.

Other than that, I love the Taycan. It handles and feels like a Porsche. I do not like the way the Tesla handles at high speeds, it floats, while the Taycan is planted.

As far as range is concerned, my 2013 Tesla has a range of 256 miles at 100% charge; the new Tesla's are well above that. In my hands, the Taycan in Normal mode and 100% charge has a 300 mile range, and at 85% charge it is 281 miles which I am very happy about and unexpected because EPA estimated range on the Taycan was 200 miles.

I will come back with more thoughts when I drive the Taycan for more miles.

But you don't find the accelerator issue in Sport Plus mode?

Chuck

 

[dgrounds]

We currently own a 2017 Tesla Model S, 2020 Taycan 4S, and Mercedes 450GL (which I now hate to drive). Formerly had a 2008 911 Carrera and 2010 911 Turbo. The Tesla is hugely superior in terms of software, OTA updates, and charging. Recently drove from Denver to Sacramento in the Tesla, and that would have been a horrible trip in the Taycan because of the charging network. Range (~300 mi) is about the same. Both EVs greatly better driving experiences than the Turbo in terms of responsiveness, but Tesla superior in terms of that accelerator responsiveness, brake hold, and backup camera. Also the automated parallel parking and self-driving capability (though I did not opt for the Innodrive). On the other hand, the Taycan to me is just exhilarating to drive. I agree with @riburn3 that the Taycan just feels "planted" (though not quite as "on rails" as the Turbo was), though I've noticed there is a front-to-back "rock" as the car comes to a stop. So very different vehicles, but both hugely superior to any internal combustion I've ever owned or driven.

Obviously Tesla had an advantage in building a car from the ground up and creating their own supply chain, whereas Porsche is relying on a number of suppliers which prevented them from making the decision to build an EV with OTA updates. On the other hand you can tell from the build quality of the Tesla vehicles that their decision came with a price. But the best thing they did, hands down, is the charging network.

Love the EVs, hate the ICE.

 

[CJE]

So I’m not the only one who felt that the off that the accelerator travel was different compared to the Tesla’s that I’ve owned. However, the travel does feel more akin to driving my 911.

This is great stuff, and clearly you guys have the sustained experience car reviewers never get. I, too, have been a long time Tesla devotee, 7 years with a 2014 P85+, which was their hot rod back in the day. I also have a 911 Turbo S so it's an easy hop to compare accelerator pedals.

The Tesla may indeed have a quicker response from the accelerator, but when you climb into a Tesla you're essentially driving a hopped up golf cart with the same accelerator and braking profile you get heading for the 5th tee. I always felt my Tesla was slightly out of control at speed, and the "planted" feeling that others have referred to was non-existent. I have clearly come to prefer the Porsche set up which makes driving and stopping feel like a 911 rather than a futuristic appliance that looks like a car.

As to the charging network, the over the air updates, the service department procedures and the commitment to an EV world...Tesla invented the form and Porsche is desperately working to catch up. In a crazy way I feel fortunate to have begun my Taycan experience in the midst of the Pandemic. For me there's no trip to take and virtually nowhere to go that requires a vast charging network. By the time we get back to a world of driving I'm hoping Porsche has caught up a bit so I can completely experience the technology and engineering of their remarkable new car.

 

[riburn3]

I will add that the later edition Model S with AWD handle a bit better than my rear will drive P85. That thing just feels like a battle barge at that weight and only RWD. Something a few other's in this thread can likely attest to. The AWD Model S feels a little more firmly planted, especially when accelerating and through mild turns, but the Taycan is just on a different level. The body roll feels so minimal compared to an S and you would really have to try hard to lose control of this car.

I think the big diffrentiator is the Model S drives and feels like a big ass sedan that is just really fast, whereas the Taycan feels like a proper sports car.

 

[mikestanley464]

Amazing! Mine is a P85 and I decided to keep it also because I really like the car, but it's not a Porsche. Also, after 7 years I was getting tired of the style and was looking for something different. I agree that the "in garage" updates are great and the charging complex the best, a real Tesla plus. Porsche has a lot to learn, and perhaps they will.
bluestacks VidMateapp.win root bluestacks CanliMacIzle

 

[BlueShoes]

I'll add my thoughts as a MX owner. The MX has been essentially pushed to the side as my wife's car. It used to be the family car and always what we took if we were going anywhere together or with the kids and my M5 was only for me and if I drove the kids by myself. Now it's flipped, the MX only is driven by my wife and if we go as a family the Taycan is the preferred car.

I'll echo what others said about pedal feel. But for me that's a positive. I personally like that Porsche went more down the path of a traditional vehicle as opposed to the golf cart sensation. I have never really liked the on/off feel of our MX and the overly aggressive regen braking. It's just... just... it's a golf cart. I like that Porsche is doing a normal acceleration curve on the pedal and does regen on both coasting and mechanical pedal push. I imagine it's also going to appeal more to the masses as opposed to the Tesla fans.

Charging comments here are interesting b/c we're the opposite. For us in the midwest, we're much better in the Taycan. The faster charging doesn't seem like a huge deal b/c it's minutes of difference but on a road trip it really adds up. Add to that, Electrify America has a stronger network than Tesla does. We did two trips, nearly identical routes, and the Tesla was longer and less convenient charging spots. Taycan, despite the lower range spec, was fewer stops, better stops, and faster drive overall. I mapped a route to Denver for a friend and it was the same (although not as drastic). I mapped a route to Dallas and it was hours different. For charging, people have to look at 1) will they even care as many may not ever plan to road trip their Taycan; 2) what would their destinations likely look like; and 3) what is outside their ideal list but still something of interest. Factoring in all three they could see if it matters or not. But the key here is geo makes a big big difference.

Not as obvious in around-town but holy smokes the road noise difference is jarring. The Tesla's are so cheaply made compared to the Taycan and I think it really shows in road noise. We had to keep radio on non-stop in the tesla to just offset the droan of the road noise. Taycan is like a freakishly quiet cabin. But in a good freaky way. No comparison. We felt tired getting out of the Tesla but didn't have that problem getting out of the Taycan after 6 hours.

Someone else commented on the sounds in that the Tesla doesn't make noise but the Taycan does - this is a federal safety requirement. Tesla's will get updated to do so as well. I can't remember when it goes into effect but Taycan's are shipping with the requirement already in place.

The con's with the Taycan are the infotainment system for sure. Yeah, it's not a Tesla with an iPad that has wheels strapped to it but I don't even care about that. They didn't ship with wireless apple play as they said which is a bit irritating - not so much that I'm an apple play guy but just that they didn't deliver and that bugs me. Overall I'm fine with the native interface b/c I don't care about some of that other crap you get with Apple Play. But the server connection they use for the widgets aren't reliable and are slow as all get out. To me, this is their biggest miss. I'd also say there are some ergonomics that suck. Getting in to the arm wrest is laughable. I'm not a fat guy but I'm not lean either and it's a contortion act. My dealer had one for a week and she laughed about the same thing. There just isn't a good interior spot to toss your phone or change other than a cup-holder. There is a nice space under the center console but it's hard to reach into. Also, the plastic piece along the B column/pillar is going to be hard pressed to not look like hell in a year. It takes a lot of abuse with getting in and out of the car.

With respect to OTA updates. Eh, so what. If the car works and worst is a visit at the dealer every year or so for an update I don't care. They give me a loaner, takes 15 min. Ideal? No. But a big deal? No. Would OTA be better? Hell yes but I also understand why they don't. In our Tesla, I used to track the release notes and the comments about the software but eventually got to where it was never anything of consequence and felt more often than not, time spent making my car fart (not making that up) was time that could have removed the bugs with water sensing windshield wipers. Time spent making the screen show it's in dog mode could have been spent focusing instead on why the car would do a death squeeze on you when you tried to get out. Really seemed they cared about the marketing buzz of new quirky features more than they cared about the operational bugs they already had or introduced in each drop of the code. Take this a step further though... holy crap trying to get warranty work done on the Telsa is ridiculous. You cannot call them. Let me repeat - you CAN NOT call them. You have to use the damn app. Like, for christ sake man you took 90k from me, if I want to talk to someone about scheduling service let me do it. The app is a nice to have but making that the only choice for service is stupid. Or not knowing if they'll have a loaner. I don't want a damn uber credit. I want a car. Especially when you can never hit your target for completing repairs.

Overall the biggest thing though, and why I can't stand Tesla to Taycan comparisons, they are apple to orange with respect to quality. Tesla's are made with super thin metal, really flimsy plastics, and of course fake leather. They're just flimsy. And I'm not even getting into the quality and long term ownership challenges we're already seeing on a MX that's not quite 2 years old. I washed the MX yesterday and I'm always shocked at how flimsy the metal panels are and you feel them bend and bow when you simply go over them with a soapy sponge. Or how the 'chrome' pieces have sharp rough edges like the old school plastic toy packaging that held pieces of your transformer together after being cut out of the dies. Then I wash the Taycan and it's just solid. Interior on the MX we have loose edges of fabric that hide the moving parts like around the steering wheel but it's literally just a curtain hanging in the air not even attached at all sides. And the rattles. jesus christ the rattles. LOL I just can't imagine anyone buying a MS performance when a Taycan 4S is about the same price. The Plaid had better get a whole new factory and forklift on quality given it's price point. And to think, the Taycan is the first real luxury EV. Just think of what will happen to Tesla MS's and MX's when Audi, BMW and Merc finally come to the table.

 

[CJE]

I'll add my thoughts as a MX owner. The MX has been essentially pushed to the side as my wife's car. It used to be the family car and always what we took if we were going anywhere together or with the kids and my M5 was only for me and if I drove the kids by myself. Now it's flipped, the MX only is driven by my wife and if we go as a family the Taycan is the preferred car.

I'll echo what others said about pedal feel. But for me that's a positive. I personally like that Porsche went more down the path of a traditional vehicle as opposed to the golf cart sensation. I have never really liked the on/off feel of our MX and the overly aggressive regen braking. It's just... just... it's a golf cart. I like that Porsche is doing a normal acceleration curve on the pedal and does regen on both coasting and mechanical pedal push. I imagine it's also going to appeal more to the masses as opposed to the Tesla fans.

Charging comments here are interesting b/c we're the opposite. For us in the midwest, we're much better in the Taycan. The faster charging doesn't seem like a huge deal b/c it's minutes of difference but on a road trip it really adds up. Add to that, Electrify America has a stronger network than Tesla does. We did two trips, nearly identical routes, and the Tesla was longer and less convenient charging spots. Taycan, despite the lower range spec, was fewer stops, better stops, and faster drive overall. I mapped a route to Denver for a friend and it was the same (although not as drastic). I mapped a route to Dallas and it was hours different. For charging, people have to look at 1) will they even care as many may not ever plan to road trip their Taycan; 2) what would their destinations likely look like; and 3) what is outside their ideal list but still something of interest. Factoring in all three they could see if it matters or not. But the key here is geo makes a big big difference.

Not as obvious in around-town but holy smokes the road noise difference is jarring. The Tesla's are so cheaply made compared to the Taycan and I think it really shows in road noise. We had to keep radio on non-stop in the tesla to just offset the droan of the road noise. Taycan is like a freakishly quiet cabin. But in a good freaky way. No comparison. We felt tired getting out of the Tesla but didn't have that problem getting out of the Taycan after 6 hours.

Someone else commented on the sounds in that the Tesla doesn't make noise but the Taycan does - this is a federal safety requirement. Tesla's will get updated to do so as well. I can't remember when it goes into effect but Taycan's are shipping with the requirement already in place.

The con's with the Taycan are the infotainment system for sure. Yeah, it's not a Tesla with an iPad that has wheels strapped to it but I don't even care about that. They didn't ship with wireless apple play as they said which is a bit irritating - not so much that I'm an apple play guy but just that they didn't deliver and that bugs me. Overall I'm fine with the native interface b/c I don't care about some of that other crap you get with Apple Play. But the server connection they use for the widgets aren't reliable and are slow as all get out. To me, this is their biggest miss. I'd also say there are some ergonomics that suck. Getting in to the arm wrest is laughable. I'm not a fat guy but I'm not lean either and it's a contortion act. My dealer had one for a week and she laughed about the same thing. There just isn't a good interior spot to toss your phone or change other than a cup-holder. There is a nice space under the center console but it's hard to reach into. Also, the plastic piece along the B column/pillar is going to be hard pressed to not look like hell in a year. It takes a lot of abuse with getting in and out of the car.

With respect to OTA updates. Eh, so what. If the car works and worst is a visit at the dealer every year or so for an update I don't care. They give me a loaner, takes 15 min. Ideal? No. But a big deal? No. Would OTA be better? Hell yes but I also understand why they don't. In our Tesla, I used to track the release notes and the comments about the software but eventually got to where it was never anything of consequence and felt more often than not, time spent making my car fart (not making that up) was time that could have removed the bugs with water sensing windshield wipers. Time spent making the screen show it's in dog mode could have been spent focusing instead on why the car would do a death squeeze on you when you tried to get out. Really seemed they cared about the marketing buzz of new quirky features more than they cared about the operational bugs they already had or introduced in each drop of the code. Take this a step further though... holy crap trying to get warranty work done on the Telsa is ridiculous. You cannot call them. Let me repeat - you CAN NOT call them. You have to use the damn app. Like, for christ sake man you took 90k from me, if I want to talk to someone about scheduling service let me do it. The app is a nice to have but making that the only choice for service is stupid. Or not knowing if they'll have a loaner. I don't want a damn uber credit. I want a car. Especially when you can never hit your target for completing repairs.

Overall the biggest thing though, and why I can't stand Tesla to Taycan comparisons, they are apple to orange with respect to quality. Tesla's are made with super thin metal, really flimsy plastics, and of course fake leather. They're just flimsy. And I'm not even getting into the quality and long term ownership challenges we're already seeing on a MX that's not quite 2 years old. I washed the MX yesterday and I'm always shocked at how flimsy the metal panels are and you feel them bend and bow when you simply go over them with a soapy sponge. Or how the 'chrome' pieces have sharp rough edges like the old school plastic toy packaging that held pieces of your transformer together after being cut out of the dies. Then I wash the Taycan and it's just solid. Interior on the MX we have loose edges of fabric that hide the moving parts like around the steering wheel but it's literally just a curtain hanging in the air not even attached at all sides. And the rattles. jesus christ the rattles. LOL I just can't imagine anyone buying a MS performance when a Taycan 4S is about the same price. The Plaid had better get a whole new factory and forklift on quality given it's price point. And to think, the Taycan is the first real luxury EV. Just think of what will happen to Tesla MS's and MX's when Audi, BMW and Merc finally come to the table.

I love this discourse and I share support for all the comments mentioned here. I had a Tesla P85+ for 7 years. I was a fairly early adopter and I had a sense of being a pioneer and driving an advanced technological machine, but It never approached the sense of owning and driving a Porsche.

My wife and I picked our car up at the Tesla factory and we were amazed at how the vehicle was constructed. In effect they create the body panels out of a huge roll of aluminum foil like they had just come back from a giant's supermarket. They then stamp out fenders and side panels with a huge stamping press they had converted from a defunct Toyota factory in the Midwest. The leather seats were made in an adjoining building that is their subcontractor, and they reflect the slight lack of detachment from the highest quality that the car projects.

My Tesla Model S held up remarkably well during its many years of use, but I drive it sparingly, avoiding long trips based on the inconvenience of having to spend 45 minutes in a neighboring Denny's at every fill up. The motor was replaced during the first year on a recall which predicted it would become "noisy" in time. The new motor eventually did that and was replaced again in the 6th year. I ended up selling the car with "1200 miles" on it which was a bonus for the new owner. At first I really enjoyed the bragging rights I got from over the air updates, but toward the end this constant updating seemed to overload the files in the car and my screen would act up repeatedly. The new owner has since replaced it at my cost.

The car was fast in a straight line. It actually felt faster than our 911 Turbo S, which would be incorrect, but does reflect the sensation of instant electric generated torque. However...going fast in a Tesla feels like you are hurtling out of control on a roller coaster. It's not about driving, but more about an available amusement. I recall coming out of a decreasing curve after exiting a freeway. I got to the end and prayed that the car would remain under control.

We never looked forward to a driving trip in the Tesla, or at least I, being the driver, didn't. For a quick trip to the dry cleaner, the hardware store, the market, or an evening at a restaurant the Tesla was an easy choice. It took you there silently for little cost, and it held passengers beautifully as well while providing the trunk space of a van. The service folks at the local Tesla center were always super polite, and if you could live with contacting them via texts, the service trips were uneventful. I think I enjoyed owning this car as much as any prized possession, but I never awoke with the anticipation of clothing myself in a car for a memorable drive. Porsches provide that feeling . It comes from more than sheer performance. Every inch of a Porsche's exterior and interior reflects a watchmaker's attention to detail. There is a "weight" to a Porsche that is more figurative than literal.

I've just finished spending a super enjoyable 30 minutes with our fairly new Taycan Turbo S and a spray bottle of quick detailer. Running the cloth along its lines and knowing what lies beneath the skin is something that aTesla has yet to provide. Just as an exercise, find a film on "How a Taycan is made" on the internet. Even the robots that Porsche has employed to craft a Taycan seem to care more about how it's made than the good folks at Tesla.

Thanks for prompting this conversation...

 

[vaf222]

As the originator of this very interesting thread, I must add that my 2013 Model S P85 (the supercar of its day) is now my "sedan", which I use when I need a sedan to go from point A to B with my wife, but the Taycan is my performance car, to drive when I want to have fun driving. Previously, I did not look at the Tesla this way because I did not have a comparator, but with Taycan as the comparator, it is clear that the Tesla Model S is a fast "sedan", while the Taycan is a fast "performance sedan+". I added the "+" because when you are in the Taycan, you know that you are in something special, I just don't get that feeling in the Tesla.

 

[vaf222]