Tesla's new V3 Superchargers are claiming to reduce charging times by up to 50% and I think beta sites are starting to go up at some point next month. This will bring it much closer to the speeds were seeing from new networks. Will take new brands awhile to reach the same level of coverage though.
2020 Porsche Taycan vs Tesla Model S
The Tesla Model S has gone unopposed in the full sized electric sedan segment for years, but that’s about to change. With incredible performance, class-leading technology, and sleek styling, the Model S has played a huge role in changing the perception of electric vehicles as a whole. It redefined what a battery powered car was capable of, and other brands have taken notice. With the Taycan, Porsche is hoping to prove that a legacy automaker can do it better.
Originally the Model S was released as an RWD but today all variants of the car are available with dual motor AWD. Whereas the Model S uses a three-phase four pole AC induction motors, Porsche will be using their permanently synchronous motors in the Taycan, which have been derived from the 919 Hybrid race car.
One of the most vital components in these two performance EV’s is the battery pack. Tesla’s has set some incredible benchmarks with their batteries, but they have announced that the smaller 75 kWh battery will be discontinued and the 100 kWh pack will be the new standard. This allows the 100D to reach up to 315 miles per charge and is supported by their 120 kW Supercharger Network, which has roughly 11,000 stations worldwide.
The Taycan will also use lithium-ion batteries and the 800-volt battery pack has been rated at 310 miles on a full charge. Rapid charging has been a focal point for Porsche and with speeds upwards of 350 kW through the developing IONITY Network, the Taycan will become the fastest charging EV on the market.
The P100D with its Ludicrous Mode upgrade boasts an incredible 0-60 mph time of just 2.4 seconds. While Porsche hasn’t mentioned if the Taycan will have some form over overboost functionality, they claim a 0-60 mph time of 3.5 seconds. Both have a software limited top speed of 155 mph.
In top spec, the Model S P100D makes 762 horsepower and 687 lb-ft of torque. Porsche hasn’t announced torque numbers for the Taycan, but least one variant has been rated at 600 hp.
The Model S starts from $95,000 for the 100D model, with the performance-focused P100D set at $133,000. Pricing for the Taycan is expected to start in the low $90,000 range for the entry-level rear-wheel-drive model. On the high end, we expect the Taycan Turbo will surpass $130,000.
With these two EV’s being set so closely in price and specs, deciding between them may come down to badge preference and availability. Porsche has long been known for their flawless build quality and that may be the most apparent difference between these two cars. Once the Taycan finally arrives, we will have a better idea of which can claim the title of best performance EV.
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8 New Things We Now Know About the Porsche Taycan
Porsche Taycan Getting Close to Challenging Tesla Model S
2020 Porsche TAYCAN VS Tesla Model S
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
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@porscheholic this industry, like any industry, is like a game of chess. Now that the major players are making their moves I expect Tesla to as well.
Interior is a big issue for me. Tesla's are too boring but this speculative rendering of a 2022 Tesla Model S could turn things around.
2019 Panamera Interior
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2022 Tesla Model S Interior
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Interior is a big issue for me. Tesla's are too boring but this speculative rendering of a 2022 Tesla Model S could turn things around.
2019 Panamera Interior
2022 Tesla Model S Interior
A well known EV youtube channel posted a video breaking down where the Taycan should sit among its competition once released and the result was, below Tesla Model S. The main argument being value and I side with him on that point. Also like mentioned, we'll have to wait for the big event in Sept for more details.
I'm not only after value, so don't think i'll jump ship to Tesla.
Snipped some comparison charts from the video are included after the video.
How will the Porsche Taycan stack up to the Model S?
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I'm not only after value, so don't think i'll jump ship to Tesla.
Snipped some comparison charts from the video are included after the video.
How will the Porsche Taycan stack up to the Model S?
This Taycan vs Model S infographic makes it very clear which one to go with.
Much like what we've seen with ICE cars in the past, this is no different. You simply pay a premium to get a well sorted car versus some key specs of that well sorted car in a cheaper package. As a result, the demographics of Model S and Taycan buyers will be drastically different.
![524]()
Much like what we've seen with ICE cars in the past, this is no different. You simply pay a premium to get a well sorted car versus some key specs of that well sorted car in a cheaper package. As a result, the demographics of Model S and Taycan buyers will be drastically different.
3
Wondering about everyday practicality? Well its... Porsche Taycan: 0 - Tesla Model S: 1
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Porsche Taycan — Power Hungry, Slower To Charge Than Tesla Model S (Most Of The Time)
By Simon Barke
After the unveiling of the new Porsche Taycan yesterday, analysts were quick to call the only electric competitor (the Tesla Model S) “ancient in comparison,” pointing out the “pathbreaking” 800 volt system that “slashes recharging times.” It is true that a higher system voltage can reduce charging times: you can feed more power to the battery without increasing the charge current. But just how good is Porsche’s implementation?
Efficiency
If you want to reduce charging times for electric cars, you can either increase the maximum charge power, or make the car more efficient. Ideally, you do both. Unfortunately, Volkswagen Group has some troubled history with efficient vehicles. It recently settled a lawsuit after it was uncovered that Audi, Bentley, Porsche, and Volkswagen vehicles contained illegal cheat software to exaggerate efficiency on test stands. The Audi e-tron remains one of the least efficient electric cars on the market. The new Porsche does not fare much better. If fact, it fares much worse.
Based on the European WLTP test cycle, the Taycan “Turbo S” requires 111 kWh to recharge its battery, providing a total range of 256 miles. That’s 2.3 miles per kWh, worse than e-tron’s 2.6 miles per kWh. Compare that to the Tesla Model S “Performance” with an WLTP efficiency of 3.3 miles per kWh and you see how efficient large electric sport sedans can be. The Model S is even quicker than the highest end Taycan, while the Taycan “Turbo” is only marginally faster than the Tesla Model 3 “Performance,” a car as efficient as 3.7 miles per kWh. (Fun fact: the Model 3 “Performance” causes 40% less CO2-eq emissions during electricity production than the Taycan “Turbo S.”)
Power
Bad efficiency has an adverse effect on charge speeds. As a countermeasure, Porsche implemented an 800 volt system that can handle impressive charging powers of up to 270 kW. The stated “5 to 80% in 22.5 minutes” recharge time can only be explained if the Taycan manages to keep the 270 kW up for at least half the charging cycle. We can use this information to estimate an idealized charging profile under optimal conditions. When you compare this to Tesla’s charging profiles, the advantage of the 800 volt system becomes visible: the Model S can only maintain its maximum rating of 200 kW for the first 20–30% of the charging cycle. The same is true for the Model 3’s 250 kW charge power. (The Tesla profiles are idealized curves from real-world data that was taken during Supercharger V3 beta testing and might have improved slightly since then.)
Keep in mind that only a handful of DC fast chargers can provide such high power. In the US, there are ten 250 kW Supercharger V3 stations available or under construction, while all other 690 stations are still limited to 150 kW but may be upgraded in the future. Although the overall charging infrastructure for the Taycan is not as good yet, there are way more stations that support the full charge power. 229 Electrify America locations that are able to provide up to 350 kW are operational today, and 71 more are planned by the end of the year.
Speed
When you know the efficiency of a car, you can translate the charge power (kWh) to charge speed (miles of range added per hour of charge). At the same time, you can scale the battery state of charge (%) to vehicle range (miles) when you know the total range. If you do that, you see that the bad efficiency and short range of the Taycan removes its charge power advantage. There is only a small area where the Taycan comes out on top. The Model S is faster during most of the charging cycle. Unsurprisingly, the Model 3 dominates the Taycan entirely.
Time
Calculating actual charge times is tricky. Essentially, you have to integrate the inverse of the charge speed (time it takes to add range) over a certain range interval. If the battery is almost full, the time required to add more range increases significantly. For that reason, most manufacturers provide the time it takes to charge the battery to 80% or similar. However, if you want to compare different cars, we need to calculate the time it takes to add range. Let’s say you pull up to the charger with 20 miles of range left. How long does it take you to add 80, 130, 180, or 230 miles?
While the Model 3 is arguably the fastest charging electric car available to date, the Taycan “Turbo S” and the Model S “Performance” are actually head to head in terms of charge time — until the 200 mile mark. While the Model S continues to add more range at a high speed, the Taycan falls off rapidly. This is no surprise: after 230 miles of range added, the Porsche’s state of charge reaches 97% and the charge speed comes to a crawl. Tesla’s battery provides the same range at just 67% state of charge and hence can accept more energy much faster.
Notes regarding the assumptions: All figures are based on the European WLTP test cycle and idealized charge powers under optimal conditions. All charge profiles are simplified models. The Taycan’s charge speeds are estimates based on provided charge times. The Model S and Model 3 charge speeds are based on early Supercharger V3 beta tests. Tesla was unable to provide official charge profiles. Porsche did not respond to an inquiry.
Conclusion
If Volkswagen Group wants to stay competitive, it needs to start caring about efficiency. High-voltage systems and sophisticated charge profiles are workarounds that not only result in more expensive cars but also higher emissions. Is there any hope? Yes. It is believed that the upcoming VW ID.3 might actually be a very efficient car. Will the Porsche Taycan be Volkswagen’s final misstep toward a cleaner future?
_
Porsche Taycan — Power Hungry, Slower To Charge Than Tesla Model S (Most Of The Time)
By Simon Barke
After the unveiling of the new Porsche Taycan yesterday, analysts were quick to call the only electric competitor (the Tesla Model S) “ancient in comparison,” pointing out the “pathbreaking” 800 volt system that “slashes recharging times.” It is true that a higher system voltage can reduce charging times: you can feed more power to the battery without increasing the charge current. But just how good is Porsche’s implementation?
Efficiency
If you want to reduce charging times for electric cars, you can either increase the maximum charge power, or make the car more efficient. Ideally, you do both. Unfortunately, Volkswagen Group has some troubled history with efficient vehicles. It recently settled a lawsuit after it was uncovered that Audi, Bentley, Porsche, and Volkswagen vehicles contained illegal cheat software to exaggerate efficiency on test stands. The Audi e-tron remains one of the least efficient electric cars on the market. The new Porsche does not fare much better. If fact, it fares much worse.
Based on the European WLTP test cycle, the Taycan “Turbo S” requires 111 kWh to recharge its battery, providing a total range of 256 miles. That’s 2.3 miles per kWh, worse than e-tron’s 2.6 miles per kWh. Compare that to the Tesla Model S “Performance” with an WLTP efficiency of 3.3 miles per kWh and you see how efficient large electric sport sedans can be. The Model S is even quicker than the highest end Taycan, while the Taycan “Turbo” is only marginally faster than the Tesla Model 3 “Performance,” a car as efficient as 3.7 miles per kWh. (Fun fact: the Model 3 “Performance” causes 40% less CO2-eq emissions during electricity production than the Taycan “Turbo S.”)
Power
Bad efficiency has an adverse effect on charge speeds. As a countermeasure, Porsche implemented an 800 volt system that can handle impressive charging powers of up to 270 kW. The stated “5 to 80% in 22.5 minutes” recharge time can only be explained if the Taycan manages to keep the 270 kW up for at least half the charging cycle. We can use this information to estimate an idealized charging profile under optimal conditions. When you compare this to Tesla’s charging profiles, the advantage of the 800 volt system becomes visible: the Model S can only maintain its maximum rating of 200 kW for the first 20–30% of the charging cycle. The same is true for the Model 3’s 250 kW charge power. (The Tesla profiles are idealized curves from real-world data that was taken during Supercharger V3 beta testing and might have improved slightly since then.)
Keep in mind that only a handful of DC fast chargers can provide such high power. In the US, there are ten 250 kW Supercharger V3 stations available or under construction, while all other 690 stations are still limited to 150 kW but may be upgraded in the future. Although the overall charging infrastructure for the Taycan is not as good yet, there are way more stations that support the full charge power. 229 Electrify America locations that are able to provide up to 350 kW are operational today, and 71 more are planned by the end of the year.
Speed
When you know the efficiency of a car, you can translate the charge power (kWh) to charge speed (miles of range added per hour of charge). At the same time, you can scale the battery state of charge (%) to vehicle range (miles) when you know the total range. If you do that, you see that the bad efficiency and short range of the Taycan removes its charge power advantage. There is only a small area where the Taycan comes out on top. The Model S is faster during most of the charging cycle. Unsurprisingly, the Model 3 dominates the Taycan entirely.
Time
Calculating actual charge times is tricky. Essentially, you have to integrate the inverse of the charge speed (time it takes to add range) over a certain range interval. If the battery is almost full, the time required to add more range increases significantly. For that reason, most manufacturers provide the time it takes to charge the battery to 80% or similar. However, if you want to compare different cars, we need to calculate the time it takes to add range. Let’s say you pull up to the charger with 20 miles of range left. How long does it take you to add 80, 130, 180, or 230 miles?
While the Model 3 is arguably the fastest charging electric car available to date, the Taycan “Turbo S” and the Model S “Performance” are actually head to head in terms of charge time — until the 200 mile mark. While the Model S continues to add more range at a high speed, the Taycan falls off rapidly. This is no surprise: after 230 miles of range added, the Porsche’s state of charge reaches 97% and the charge speed comes to a crawl. Tesla’s battery provides the same range at just 67% state of charge and hence can accept more energy much faster.
Notes regarding the assumptions: All figures are based on the European WLTP test cycle and idealized charge powers under optimal conditions. All charge profiles are simplified models. The Taycan’s charge speeds are estimates based on provided charge times. The Model S and Model 3 charge speeds are based on early Supercharger V3 beta tests. Tesla was unable to provide official charge profiles. Porsche did not respond to an inquiry.
Conclusion
If Volkswagen Group wants to stay competitive, it needs to start caring about efficiency. High-voltage systems and sophisticated charge profiles are workarounds that not only result in more expensive cars but also higher emissions. Is there any hope? Yes. It is believed that the upcoming VW ID.3 might actually be a very efficient car. Will the Porsche Taycan be Volkswagen’s final misstep toward a cleaner future?
2
The Taycan vs Model S battle also continues on Twitter which should get interesting as it might push Elon or Porsche PR guy to push more info.
Porsche On Tesla Nürburgring Rivalry And Elon Musk: Thanks For The P.R. But Bring It On
David Tracy
Yesterday 2:05pm
Filed to: PORSCHE TAYCAN
60.4K
3141
![Art: Jason Torchinsky. Photos: David Tracy]()
Art: Jason Torchinsky. Photos: David Tracy
I just drove the Porsche Taycan, and though I can’t give you a full review until later, I can say what the Porsche Taycan’s P.R. Manager told me at dinner about Tesla’s Nürburgring record attempts and Elon Musk’s Porsche Taycan-related tweets. As he pointed out, Tesla has helped Porsche more than it hurt it.
By now you’re probably all aware that, following Porsche’s claim that its new Taycan electric sports sedan had set the Nürburgring lap record for a four-door electric vehicle, Tesla boss Elon Musk went into competitive mode. The company devoted multiple Model Ss to Germany’s greatest test track to see what they could do. Strangeness ensued. Tesla apparently neglected to book exclusive track time for a record attempt; Musk declared that that the car attempting to set the record was actually a seven-seater featuring a prototype dual rear motor setup called “plaid mode”; a Porsche Taycan drove past the Model S when it apparently broke down during testing; Tesla installed Superchargers at the Nurburgring after reportedly annoying local residents with a loud diesel generator that charged the test car; and ultimately Tesla set a damn impressive unofficial lap time.
This all came after Musk jokingly tweeted at Porsche about the Stuttgart-based brand’s use of “turbo” as a name for a vehicle that doesn’t actually contain a turbocharger.
Since I found myself sitting across from the Porsche Taycan’s P.R. manager, Mayk Wienkötter, last week, I had to ask him about all of this. The first thing I wanted to know was what he thought about Elon’s tweets. “Free P.R. for us,” he told me. “I’m not sure everyone was aware of the Taycan,” he continued, mentioning Musk’s enormous Twitter following.
I also asked whether Porsche planned to respond to Tesla’s recent unofficial lap time, which was set by a pre-production Model S and which undercut the Taycan’s lap by roughly 20 seconds.
Wienkötter said Porsche is a highly competitive brand when it comes to racing, but that it doesn’t plan to make a one-off car just to beat Tesla, as Porsche is focused first and foremost on launching the Taycan. Plus, he said, Porsche wants to make sure its comparing “apples to apples.” The P.R. manager said it’s not clear if the Model S that ran the Nürburgring contained standard production-intent components like suspension parts, brakes, cooling, and tires. Plus, he mentioned that he doesn’t know what sacrifices Tesla had to make to score that lap, with Wienkötter specifically mentioning battery longevity.
With that said, if Tesla does release a production vehicle that outdoes the Taycan’s lap, Porsche will respond, with Wienkötter saying: “We will definitely try to give an answer,” before saying: “If another apple is better than our apple, we will have to find an answer.” The manager didn’t mention exactly how Porsche would go about answering. When I asked if Porsche was planning a dual rear-motor Taycan, Wienkötter answered with a negative.
“Turbo S,” he said, “is really the pinnacle of the model,” he said before stating outright that there is no dual motor or high-performance variant of the Taycan currently in the plans. Porsche’s project manager for the Taycan’s high voltage systems, Benjamin Passenberg cited space, weight, and cost as three factors working against a dual rear-motor Taycan.
What about the Porsche Taycan Turbo S? According to Porsche, the model that set the Nürburgring lap record was actually a well-equipped Turbo, which offers less peak power than the Turbo S, specifically in launch control mode. Is it possible that the Turbo S could set a new record or even beat the figure that the Tesla set?
After I asked if the Turbo S could be 20 seconds faster than the Turbo, Wienkötter responded said “Doubt it. Twenty seconds is a lot,” and went on to mention that, though there’s still some room for improvement, the Turbo and Turbo S are positioned really closely, and that “the gap you would gain [with a Turbo S over a Turbo] is not that significant.”
So really, it seems like Porsche is cool with Elon’s tweets since it gives their car more exposure, but they’re not cool with getting beaten by Tesla if that Tesla is an actual production car and not a one-off. For now, it seems, Porsche’s focusing on launching the Taycan.
But when Tesla launches plaid mode in the Model S (it’s expected to enter production in about a year), if that car outdoes the Taycan, you can expect a response from Stuttgart, though I have no clue what that response will be. All I know is that the prospect of an electric sports car engineering showdown between Porsche and Tesla is one of the most exciting things I can even imagine.
Porsche On Tesla Nürburgring Rivalry And Elon Musk: Thanks For The P.R. But Bring It On
David Tracy
Yesterday 2:05pm
Filed to: PORSCHE TAYCAN
60.4K
3141
Art: Jason Torchinsky. Photos: David Tracy
I just drove the Porsche Taycan, and though I can’t give you a full review until later, I can say what the Porsche Taycan’s P.R. Manager told me at dinner about Tesla’s Nürburgring record attempts and Elon Musk’s Porsche Taycan-related tweets. As he pointed out, Tesla has helped Porsche more than it hurt it.
By now you’re probably all aware that, following Porsche’s claim that its new Taycan electric sports sedan had set the Nürburgring lap record for a four-door electric vehicle, Tesla boss Elon Musk went into competitive mode. The company devoted multiple Model Ss to Germany’s greatest test track to see what they could do. Strangeness ensued. Tesla apparently neglected to book exclusive track time for a record attempt; Musk declared that that the car attempting to set the record was actually a seven-seater featuring a prototype dual rear motor setup called “plaid mode”; a Porsche Taycan drove past the Model S when it apparently broke down during testing; Tesla installed Superchargers at the Nurburgring after reportedly annoying local residents with a loud diesel generator that charged the test car; and ultimately Tesla set a damn impressive unofficial lap time.
This all came after Musk jokingly tweeted at Porsche about the Stuttgart-based brand’s use of “turbo” as a name for a vehicle that doesn’t actually contain a turbocharger.
Since I found myself sitting across from the Porsche Taycan’s P.R. manager, Mayk Wienkötter, last week, I had to ask him about all of this. The first thing I wanted to know was what he thought about Elon’s tweets. “Free P.R. for us,” he told me. “I’m not sure everyone was aware of the Taycan,” he continued, mentioning Musk’s enormous Twitter following.
I also asked whether Porsche planned to respond to Tesla’s recent unofficial lap time, which was set by a pre-production Model S and which undercut the Taycan’s lap by roughly 20 seconds.
Wienkötter said Porsche is a highly competitive brand when it comes to racing, but that it doesn’t plan to make a one-off car just to beat Tesla, as Porsche is focused first and foremost on launching the Taycan. Plus, he said, Porsche wants to make sure its comparing “apples to apples.” The P.R. manager said it’s not clear if the Model S that ran the Nürburgring contained standard production-intent components like suspension parts, brakes, cooling, and tires. Plus, he mentioned that he doesn’t know what sacrifices Tesla had to make to score that lap, with Wienkötter specifically mentioning battery longevity.
With that said, if Tesla does release a production vehicle that outdoes the Taycan’s lap, Porsche will respond, with Wienkötter saying: “We will definitely try to give an answer,” before saying: “If another apple is better than our apple, we will have to find an answer.” The manager didn’t mention exactly how Porsche would go about answering. When I asked if Porsche was planning a dual rear-motor Taycan, Wienkötter answered with a negative.
“Turbo S,” he said, “is really the pinnacle of the model,” he said before stating outright that there is no dual motor or high-performance variant of the Taycan currently in the plans. Porsche’s project manager for the Taycan’s high voltage systems, Benjamin Passenberg cited space, weight, and cost as three factors working against a dual rear-motor Taycan.
What about the Porsche Taycan Turbo S? According to Porsche, the model that set the Nürburgring lap record was actually a well-equipped Turbo, which offers less peak power than the Turbo S, specifically in launch control mode. Is it possible that the Turbo S could set a new record or even beat the figure that the Tesla set?
After I asked if the Turbo S could be 20 seconds faster than the Turbo, Wienkötter responded said “Doubt it. Twenty seconds is a lot,” and went on to mention that, though there’s still some room for improvement, the Turbo and Turbo S are positioned really closely, and that “the gap you would gain [with a Turbo S over a Turbo] is not that significant.”
So really, it seems like Porsche is cool with Elon’s tweets since it gives their car more exposure, but they’re not cool with getting beaten by Tesla if that Tesla is an actual production car and not a one-off. For now, it seems, Porsche’s focusing on launching the Taycan.
But when Tesla launches plaid mode in the Model S (it’s expected to enter production in about a year), if that car outdoes the Taycan, you can expect a response from Stuttgart, though I have no clue what that response will be. All I know is that the prospect of an electric sports car engineering showdown between Porsche and Tesla is one of the most exciting things I can even imagine.
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
